Paula Newby-Fraser, who has dominated the triathlon world over the past decade, announced her retirement just prior to competing in the 1995 Gatorade Ironman Triathlon World Championship. Outside Online contributor Timothy Carlson spoke to Newby-Fraser at the Boulder, Colorado, Multisport School of Champions in July about her storied career. Here is their conversation.

Q: How has this year, leading to what you say is your final competitive Hawaiian Ironman, evolved?

Paula Newby-Fraser: I've won Wildflower, Lanzarote and Germany. At this moment whilst you are interviewing me, I am thoroughly sleep-deprived and actually a little bit run-down. A little sick. But that is sort of to be expected, because I had a really tough race in Germany. 90-95 degrees. I traveled back to here at altitude. The Multisport School of Champions Ironman Camp only started Sunday. But the media has been on me since Friday. I'll be quite honest, I am a little run down. A little deprived of sleep at the moment. I'm living on caffeine at the moment.

But the year has been good to me so far. It is probably the first year in the last two I've been healthy. The last two years I feel it has been pretty much an uphill struggle and a lot of my success has been in spite of myself. Because I was not healthy in Hawaii last year and I was not healthy in Hawaii the year before.

Q: You still managed to do the trick in one of the hottest years of them all.

Paula Newby-Fraser: It was a tough year in Hawaii. I probably rode a little hard. I miscalculated wearing a suit that was all black. That hurt me on the run and on the bike. My mental attitude was not real good either.

Q: You spoke fairly seriously, saying that you were close to calling it curtains with your career.

Paula Newby-Fraser: I was.

Q: I think it had a lot to do with digging so deep in 1993. Deeper than you would choose to. It seemed like a dark place.

Paula Newby-Fraser: I think the comeback the year before [1993] took an awful, awful lot out of me. You know when I raced that race, there was not an injury per se that could be seen on an X-ray or MRI; I had largely recovered. But the integrity of my ankle joint was still problematic. Last year in Hawaii was the first long race where I could race without having to brace my ankle. I wore an ankle brace in Lanzarote last year. I wore an ankle brace in Germany. But in a lot of races the integrity of that ankle was not good. I had also a lot more health problems.

Q: Was it partly because you had to borrow on your previous conditioning and on your body itself in 1993? To make up for the ankle and the work that you couldn't do?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Could be. It could be. My race took a lot out of me. Honestly, last year I got myself in good shape during the year. In Germany in 1994, I went 8:50. But you know the conditions were handed to us on a plate there last year. It was ... you know I don't necessarily think it was that fast. It's just the conditions were great. I was in good shape. But you know there was really something missing. By the end of last year, after Hawaii I went to the race in Phuket, Thailand. I remember waking up in the morning--this had never happened to me before--I did not want to go to the start line. I turned around to Paul [Huddle, former Ironman Japan triathlete, and Newby-Fraser's fiance] and told him I would give anything not to start this race. It was the same thing when I got to Alacatraz last year. I would have given anything not to start this race. But I am very committed to my sponsors. I had to sort of suck it up and do it. I was unwilling to push myself.

But then I had been sick, too. [That] probably wasn't known. I think you might recall I had an absolutely miserable race in Chicago last year. I was totally lost. And I had no idea why. I finished the race and I went back to my hotel room. I went back to my room and I collapsed. I collapsed and I would just go to sleep. And I came back to Boulder and I tried to train. I would go for a relatively hard run and I would come home and collapse. I would be passed out for three hours. And I knew something was wrong. I took a blood test. My blood-cell count was really elevated. I had no idea what was wrong with me.

Q: Nobody knew, but you were just as much in jeopardy before the 1994 Ironman as you were the year before?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yes. Exactly. I could honestly tell you then in September when I started training, I would just sit there and say, "I don't think that I will be able to race Hawaii." And it was just on a hunch about three and a half weeks before the race, every time I had a massage I kept getting inflamed glands. It was just on a hunch when I was back in California. I did something and I was collapsed again. I said, "You know? There is something wrong with my teeth." And what they found is that I had an abscessed tooth that had just been spewing this low-level infection. I had no idea how long it had been going. It has a dramatic effect. The immune system is overstimulated.

Q: It is fighting a war.

Paula Newby-Fraser: It is. And you are trying to train. It is another war. I went in and they went straight into the crown and they found that it was a really badly abscessed tooth. So they cleaned it out. I had my very first root canal. To be perfectly honest, I had the last root canal surgery two and a half weeks before the race. I was on antibiotics, which is terrible during training. It is not something I would necessarily do. I haven't taken antibiotics in a long, long time. But I did it. The circumstances were severe enough that I did it. It is interesting though. I did have a dramatic turnaround in training. I was able to go out and train and not feel completely (drained). I would go on these rides and I would try and run and I would almost pass out while I was running.

Q: You still feel you may be vulnerable to that bad day on an important day? If some health factor kicked in or your condition was marginal?

Paula Newby-Fraser: I look at it this way. I have had some bad days out there. And other women have not taken advantage of the bad days that I've had. I mean, I've had what I consider to be poor races. I know what it's like to have a great race. Maybe they feel like I'm never having a bad day. But they don't know. I certainly am vulnerable out there. And it's only a matter of time before somebody hits me on one of those bad days.

Q: Then you took a long break and thought it over?

Paula Newby-Fraser: You know what? I talked retirement a lot last year because mentally I was having a hard time feeling the passion that I feel for this and the enjoyment and the challenge of the training. I set back for a full two-and-a-half months. I didn't even take my bike out of the box. End of October, November, December ... I did not unpack my bike from its box until the second week of January. I didn't even go swimming. I did the occasional run. I spent a winter at home. I stayed at home. I didn't go anywhere. I would get up in the morning. We'd go to Starbucks. We'd have our coffee. We'd do the crossword. I sat at home and did nothing. I completely regenerated myself both mentally and physically. And I just let everything settle and I didn't get sick all winter. I was so relaxed. I didn't get sick the whole winter.

Q: You didn't even think about running, even though you love it so much?

Paula Newby-Fraser: No. I didn't get frantic about anything. I didn't even get frantic about setting a race schedule. I just I kind of let it go. And then when January came around, it was raining a lot in San Diego. It was raining the whole month. I started riding my mountain bike. Something started to click. It was great. I went through the whole winter and I never got sick.

Q: Was it interesting to be with Paul during this time when he figured he needed more than the three months off that you were giving yourself?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yeah. Yeah, because you know what? What's happened this year has been this energy shift. He has realized that he doesn't want to race this year and he is very happy in the role that he is in right now. He now has energy to give me when I am tired and run down. He takes care of me and it is wonderful. I can honestly say I could see a flip-flop next year. I could see myself doing some races but putting his races at a higher priority than mine. I will be honest. I think this is probably the last year I will ... It is not the last year I will race Hawaii. But this is the last year that I'm putting myself on the line. I'm laying it out. I'm going off to a big race. I'm putting in what I think is the necessary training. Make the necessary sacrifices.

If I get beat, it will be by somebody who is really focused and really puts in the work and really wants it. If they are going to take it, they are going to have to put in a spectacular day. Because I am going to fight as hard as I can.

But I would like to go back in a much more relaxed way. It has always, always been my dream that when the gun goes off, to be one of those people standing on Dig Me Beach at Kailua Pier and watch everybody else kill themselves and go off and have a mellow day at the Ironman. One of those days where you don't have to fear the unknown. Actually with me it is fearing the known. I'd like to have a really, really nice day out there one day.

Q: Isabel Mouthon is doing well; she had a rather good year last year, is a little more focused this year. One would guess that Karen Smyers has a great progression in Hawaii. How do you see their potential?

Paula Newby-Fraser: You know, I can make an honest assessment of this. I think Isabel is certainly a tremendous threat because she has mastered the art of racing long races. However, let me make this distinction. She has mastered the art of racing for seven hours. Not nine hours. She has raced one Ironman in her life. She has never raced Hawaii. Nobody has--let me say I am touching on speculation here- -nobody has won Hawaii their first time out [in the modern era]. Because that Ironman in Hawaii is so completely and utterly different to the other Ironmans. It is not Nice. Nice is Nice and Hawaii is Hawaii. She certainly knows how to go long. I think she would be better off going into Hawaii to have a good experience.

But I think a good experience for Isabel could still be very, very good. Because she is that talented. It could be a first. She could be the one who comes out and just goes. But then, she's only raced one Ironman. About three years ago, I think she went to New Zealand and that's it.

And Karen. Karen is just such a super talented athlete. And you know? Sometimes the only thing is how committed you are to doing the work and wanting to do the work.

Q: Because you have to become a different athlete to do well at Ironman?

Paula Newby-Fraser: In a lot of ways, you need a big base under you. You need a good year under you. Karen, I don't know what kind of a year she is having. I don't know what kind of training she is doing. I have no idea.

Q: I have a suspicious feeling that she went so far on natural talent last year. But that last step involved building a much larger pyramid of endurance. It is almost 10 times the work to get the last 5 percent out of Hawaii.

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yes. A lot of it is self-motivation. How much motivation you want to put in yourself. I don't know. She trains with her husband [excellent amateur triathlete Michael King]. That I see is a great thing. On the other hand, you also have to be able to put in some of the work alone. By yourself. You have to push yourself, because it is a very alone day, as I experienced in my last two Ironmans and raced alone both of them. Particularly on the bike. It is a very mentally challenging day. And I don't know if she is going to do that or she isn't. She is certainly capable of winning the race. I do think she is capable of winning the race.

Q: Was there any point in the race last year when you said: "Uh oh. Karen might make a serious run at me"?

Paula Newby-Fraser: No. I didn't. They told me Karen was coming. I said, "You need to pull yourself together and get going."

Q: It wasn't panic?

Paula Newby-Fraser: No. The time she took out of my lead was in the first eight or nine miles when I was walking and I was having a crisis. From the point that I made the decision to get the job done, she took no more time out of me.

Q: The time for you to worry is when anybody takes time out of your lead when you are on your game?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yeah. If I am on that marathon and I am running what I consider a steady pace and people are taking a lot of time out of me. Particularly in the second half of the marathon where I figure I can usually maintain. In Germany, Sue Latshaw got within two and a half minutes of me in the beginning. She was three and a half [minutes] out after the transition. I knew exactly what she was doing. She was making a run at it and she was making the run too early without thinking. And I knew what would happen. I knew the consequences of the last 10K of that marathon and I know what it looks like out there. And I was a little surprised.

I said to her after [the race that] I handed it to her. "You know what? You had a lot of balls. You made a run for it. But you paid the price." She ended up third. She was two and a half minutes back at one stage and she ended up 26 minutes back at the finish. I mean, that's dying.

Q: The only time to make a statement is at the finish line, and not earlier in the race. At that point they have grown up at Ironman. And that takes a long time.

Paula Newby-Fraser: You know when somebody is getting mature when you don't hear comments like, "I was on pace for a 2:50 marathon." I say, "But you didn't run a 2:50 marathon." We were all on pace for something. You hear athletes drop out, and say, "Oh, I got this terrible cramp. But I was on pace for an 8:50." I say, "Don't say it. Because you didn't do it."

Q: Is there still a part of you that wishes a wider audience would recognize your achievement at Ironman?

Paula Newby-Fraser: No. I don't care about that any more at all. Not any more. I think about 1986 and 1987, when I was very new to the sport, you get caught up in the hierarchy. But after 1988, pretty much from that point on, I let it go. That is when I got 11th overall in 1988. Actually the beginning of 1988 I let it go.

Q: It was a nice statement by Sam Posey in the 1989 ABC Ironman broadcast. He called you "the best endurance athlete in the world."

Paula Newby-Fraser: He always says nice things. But I have gone so far beyond that. It's like I really don't care anymore. I realize that I am doing this for myself anyway. It's OK. I remember in my first couple years, I was more caught up in the hierarchy of how important you feel you are. How much you feel your sponsors should give you.

And then I started to realize that you pay your dues out there. People can moan and groan about different sponsorships and how much recognition and you pay your dues. You just go out there, work hard and if you get recognition, that's OK.

Q: How important has your relationship with Paul Huddle been? Has this helped you? Has this made you more comfortable, able to remain longer at this high level in the sport?

Paula Newby-Fraser: It's grounded me tremendously. I am an air person. I am a double Gemini. In my moon and my sun. I am a total air person. He had definitely grounded me tremendously this year. Somehow, not having both of us competing has truly balanced everything out and he balances out the qualities that I don't have. He has just immense compassion and patience. And his giving is so genuine. If somebody has pulled up by the side of the road with a broken-down car, he will be the one to stop and help that person.

When I first met him, he was sort of funny. He was different. And that really attracted me to him. It wasn't anything else. He used to wear these funny socks to swimming. And I used to think that he was really funny. He was really geeky but he did it in such an ungeeky way. His style ... he wears it well and it is very unique. He's found a place for himself and it's not very ... it's not Chuckie V [Veylupek]. It's not Greg Welch. But the people who know him and love him, they love him a lot because they know what good qualities he has. I think that is why Mark [Allen] is so close to him.

Q: Do you go along with Mark's theory, that you can only tap into the really true core energy so many times? How do you see your vital core energy?

Paula Newby-Fraser: I don't know about the limited amount. I think we have a lot more than we think we have. And you know, I stand back and look at what I've done. I have used up my share, and then a lot! I think you can nurture it if you keep your channels open. And you give, know what I mean? If you are in a giving situation. Like you are constantly giving. You are constantly creating space to get something new. It is like the whole idea of going to Hawaii. Some athletes seclude themselves and stay away from the hoopla. I say, "Go out. Be in it. There is so much energy!" I go down Alii Drive the week before. I am bumping into people: "Oh we hope you win! We hope you win!" That kind of energy is just wonderful.

There is so much energy. I get given so much energy by other people. And I think if you keep the energy flow going, I think you can keep the self well-supplied and you can keep your core well-supplied. But if you think what you are going through is something different, and you need to be by yourself, in this whole monastic thing ... I am not into that. I am certainly into sometimes being a little more quiet, not jabbering on the phone to my friends. When I am in San Diego I am on the phone to my friends every day. I have a very highly social life there. Sometimes I have to come here (Boulder) and get the training done.

Q: I would welcome one great duel that is truly close.

Paula Newby-Fraser: It's not that I wouldn't welcome a close fight. But it's not something I dream of. Because you know what, for me it has nothing to do with a duel with another person. It always has to do with how I deal with myself. And the same thing in Germany. When Sue was running up on me, I went through all this stuff in my brain. You start to doubt yourself. Whether somebody is right next to me or not, in some way it is my greatest disappointment. I still won the race. But there have been times when I have given up on myself.

Q: Can you imagine if you prevailed against yourself and still lost the race to another competitor. Would you be fine?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yes. And that has happened. Believe me, it's happened. I have had races ... those short races where I crossed the line fourth and I walked away from them so happy and so proud of myself. So extremely proud of myself.

[But] every year is a different year and every year has presented its challenges.

Q: In a way, 1993 might have been your most amazing year.

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yeah, but then 1992 was my most flawless race. I walked away from that with the fastest swim, the fastest bike and the fastest run.

Q: That is obvious. But do you feel better about yourself, being brave in 1993?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Yeah, I was. That was really a tremendous effort at the time. It was one of those things that I ... almost I had to do it. It was the salvation of my year.

Q: When you did that, I am guessing it was not because you feared Erin Baker overtaking you like the headless horseman. You did it for another reason. Why did you dig so deep?

Paula Newby-Fraser: Why did I do that? I am a masochist. Under those circumstances, Mark Allen or Dave Scott would not have entered the race. It would have been a gone cause. I did it because, it was sort of like in 1992 when I did those three ultra-distance races in four weeks. I did it. It was foolish thing to do. But it was one of those things that I felt, in my head, it can be done. It is not a rational thing to do. But it can be done. And I know I can do it. That's really all it was.

I had done Nice. I had one week off. I went and did Japan Ironman. The following weekend was July 4th. I was sitting there July 4th and I said to myself, "You know, I don't feel that beat up. I know I can do it."

I remember it was Saturday, and I said to my agent "call up and see if I can do that German Ironman. The next day I was on the plane. I know it can be done.

I was almost doing nothing [for training]. I was doing minimal workouts. I just got back from Japan and I was running along, thinking "I am running a taper right now and I am peaking. I have another race left in me."

Q: You must have had a longer recovery after Germany.

Paula Newby-Fraser: Oh, I got terribly sick.

Q: Then you got a wallop of extra energy when you recovered and it all came back, stronger?

Paula Newby-Fraser: It is sort of what I was hoping this year. I raced Wildflower. I raced Lanzarote. I raced Germany.

I am honestly a little run down now. And this happened after that long run [in 1992]. I came back after I was terribly sick for a few weeks. Just a cold. Basically run down. I probably wouldn't feel this way if this camp wasn't on because I would have stayed in bed for two or three days.

But I am hoping I will get that kind of kick back this year.