Robert F. Kennedy, JR. & Christine Todd Whitman Debate the Environment

Outside Magazine November 2004

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Robert F. Kennedy, JR. & Christine Todd Whitman
The Environment: A Debate (cont.)
Is Compromise Possible?


	Well played: Kennedy and Whitman wrapping it up at Shepp Ranch (Andy Anderson)

OUTSIDE: Part of why we brought you together was to talk about a third way, about what healthy environmental politics might look and sound like. So how do we get there?
WHITMAN: It has to start with the people. The people have to put pressure on their elected officials at all levels and say, "This is what matters to me. I don't care about Britney Spears. I care about the health of my children." The public has to demand it.

KENNEDY: I think there's a big deficit in the public understanding of the environment. I would not blame it on the environmental community. Seventeen years ago, in 1987, the Reagan administration abolished the Fairness Doctrine, which required broadcasters to air conflicting views on important issues. That change also allowed huge corporate consolidation of America's airwaves. Six giant multinationals now control virtually all of America's newspapers and television and radio stations. They've liquidated their foreign news bureaus and fired investigative reporters. Recently I asked Fox News chairman Roger Ailes why the networks won't cover the environment. And he said it's not fast-breaking; it's not entertaining. Networks know what our evolutionary triggers are. We're interested in gossip; we're interested in pornography. And those are the buttons they press. They give us Kobe Bryant and Michael Jackson, and very little about the real news that affects our lives.

But we also have a higher part of our intellect. Even though a typical American may pick up the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue when they go into a supermarket, they're interested in other things as well.

Unfortunately, environmentalists have to do stunts or bring in celebrities to get our stuff on television. We can't get news bureaus to come to a press conference if we can't get a celebrity there. So it's your industry, the media, that's the failure.

WHITMAN: I don't disagree that the public debate has suffered. What used to be a 30-second sound bite is now an eight-second sound bite. How can you have an intelligent discussion about any issue of real importance in eight seconds? You can't.

KENNEDY: Four years ago, we experienced one of the biggest environmental catastrophes in our history, and nobody covered it.

OUTSIDE: Which was—?
KENNEDY: The coal-slurry dam spill in

KENNEDY: Good environmental policy is identical to good economic policy. I defy you to show me an instance where it isn't. The problem is, polluters treat the planet as if it were a business in liquidation. And our children are going to pay for our joyride.

Inez, Kentucky. They spilled almost half a billion gallons of toxic sludge, destroyed 50 miles of river system, buried 35 communities, destroyed the water supply for probably 50 communities. The EPA said it was one of the worst environmental catastrophes in U.S. history.

WHITMAN: What catches people's attention are catastrophic stories like that. But telling the other side is also important—showing where and how things work. People need to know that they can make a positive difference for the environment, so they don't feel that it all rests with Congress or the White House.

KENNEDY: The stories are out there, and they're just as compelling as the ones that drove the environmental movement in the first place: Three Mile Island and the Cuyahoga River catching fire. My children can no longer participate in the primal activity of American youth, which is to go fishing with their father and eat the fish. In 17 states, you can't do that anymore, because the fish are so contaminated with mercury. That's a science-fiction nightmare.

OUTSIDE: Christie, are you at all hopeful about these issues?
WHITMAN: Absolutely. First of all, I don't see the Bush administration as the cataclysmic machine of evil that Bobby does. I've known and served with people in this administration. They're people with a different agenda than Bobby, but most of them are good, solid people who try to do the public good.

The problem is in finding balance—that horrible word. This is a struggle that's been going on for a long time. It didn't just start four years ago. There are a lot of people who are absolutely outraged and feel that this administration is giving everything away. There are others who say, "No, we're correcting the excesses of the Clinton years. It's just the pendulum swinging back." What we need to do is stop the pendulum.

OUTSIDE: One person you both seem to like is Governor Schwarzenegger in California, who has turned out to be surprisingly green. What's going on?
WHITMAN: So far he's doing a lot of really good, creative environmental work: He's got a bold initiative on smart growth, he's backing tough auto-emissions standards, he's showing terrific leadership. But Schwarzenegger has to fight with his legislature. He's got hurdles. It remains to be seen how far he'll take all this. So far, however, he's being very progressive.

OUTSIDE: How much of what Schwarzenegger is doing can be attributed to the fact that, since he financed much of his own campaign, he doesn't have the baggage of other politicians in terms of having to please a political base?
WHITMAN: He didn't have to survive the kind of primary that so often sets up expectations. And that has given him a great ability to flip the bird to people who might expect something from him.

OUTSIDE: Can his example change the Republican party's approach to environmental issues?
KENNEDY: I hope some of what he's doing starts to infiltrate the Republican party. Republicans may start to see that, politically and economically, it's a good thing. I'd like them to find their way back to the party's Teddy Roosevelt roots, to bring conserve back to conservatism. That's my greatest hope—that this issue will no longer be a partisan issue.

OUTSIDE: Can both of you name a couple of areas where real progress has been made?
WHITMAN: Most people, if you ask them, will tell you they think things are getting worse. Actually, they're not. They're getting better. But with the environment, you're never home-free. Our waters are cleaner, but 40 percent of them still don't meet the fishable/swimmable/drinkable standard. That's not acceptable. The number of ozone-alert days is down, but that's still not acceptable. We're not where we need to be, clearly.

KENNEDY: Between 1970 and 1981, we passed 28 major environmental laws. They've been a resounding success. We got rid of leaded gasoline, and now children have less lead in their blood and therefore higher IQs. We passed the Endangered Species Act, and the bald eagle, the timber wolf, the Florida alligator, and other species have rebounded. Our waterways used to be sewers; the Clean Water Act cleaned that up.

I agree with Christie: Good environmental policy is always good economic policy. I defy you to show me an instance where it isn't. The problem is, the White House and the big polluters are treating the planet as if it were a business in liquidation. And our children are going to pay for our joyride.

The role of the environmental community is not to protect nature for its own sake but to be advocates for the future generations of America. Politicians seldom look beyond the next election, or industrialists beyond the next board meeting. The future whispers, the present shouts. Our leaders serve the shouting present. The role that environmental advocates play is to inject the long view. To say, Wait a second. We have a trustee obligation to take care of the next generation.

WHITMAN: That, we can agree upon. We don't take from our forebears. We borrow from our children.

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