JENKINS: Neil, I'm glad you brought that up because that was one of my questions, and you've kind of answered it. And that is, that the model that you're describing is the model that I went to Everest on, on the North Face in '86. And that is a group of climbers who know each other, who have climbed together—that was a group of us, Carlos Bueller and Todd Bibler and Annie Whitehouse, and we put together a team and we had a guy.Basically, we were a climbing team.

We didn't succeed, but we all came home and we were still friends and we all had our fingers and toes. And it seems like there is still room for that, by going with one of these cheaper outfits, although from what I've heard—and I know from people who have tried this—that the north col route and the south col route are so crowded during the spring season that it can be difficult. There is a fixed line. Do you want to use that the whole time? And also many of the tent platforms are used—can anybody address that?

VIESTURS: I think you're correct, when you go as a team that you just described. Unfortunately you're just going to be confronted by all these other groups—that's just the nature of Everest today—there's so many people there, it's not the "wilderness experience" that you might've expected 15 years ago where you were the only expedition there.

So, if you do choose to go there, on one of the more popular routes, whether it's the north col or the south col, that's what you're going to be deal with. There's going to be a lot of people and there's going to be fixed ropes and whether you choose to use those or not or walk ten feet to one side to say that you were more "independent," well, that's something that you're going to have to figure out.

Certainly the other options are to climb one of the other routes that aren't popular—obviously they're going to be more difficult. Or, sadly to say, just go somewhere else.

JENKINS: Or climb in a different season I suppose.

VIESTURS: Well yeah, but then you're chances of success are reduced and the margins of safety are reduced. If you're going to pick and choose to go to Everest, you're going to want to maximize your chances and typically that means going in the spring. We've seen a lot of teams that go in the autumn, and now they have permits for the monsoon, but your chances are pretty slim of succeeding.

JENKINS: Thanks guys. Let's move on, I don't you to feel like your on the phone forever. As mountaineering has matured it's also, like all other sports, become more litigious, particularly here in the U.S. as well as in England.

We have cases now where people come back from Everest expeditions and they're suing their guide, for whatever reason. I'm wondering if this becomes particularly poignant when someone may have died or somebody who may not have been rescued who should have been rescued.

We have several scenarios that have happened this year and last year that I'm sure you're all aware of. So, I'm wondering, should Everest climbers be signing documents that say, "Look it, when it's between you summiting, and the team trying to save someone—someone's life, as part of the team or someone else, that takes precedent." Would that make any sense and would it even be effective at high altitude?

HAHN: I think that is already a part of any reputable trip over there. Those discussions happen, and that's already going on. But this is may be the other half to what we were saying earlier. You were asking whether we thought we could responsibly guide on Everest and whether we could rescue people, and I think we said that we did feel we could. But, there are certainly situations where we all know that we can't save people—above the south summit or in some places on the north ridge—if they can't walk then no, they also can't be carried on some of that terrain.

The reason I bring that up now is that that's another very obvious discussion that has to be had on responsible expeditions before you go up there, before you sign on. The limits of guiding, and sometimes the guiding relationships that I've entered into over there, it's not just having the person's whose signing up, the one who is doing the climbing, read and sign off on all the paperwork. It's also his or her spouse to do the same so that they understand. We all know plenty of situations where the climber knew firmly in his mind what the risks were and what he was undertaking, but yeah it's the people who are left behind that may have the vast misunderstanding.